C

Sun, Feb 9, 2020 10:34 PM

What happens?

I have to wonder..  When a system is armed with no functioning motion or glass-break sensors in the area; what happens IF someone 'quickly' smashes a window, jerks both the tape mounted sensors from the frame and the sash window and tapes them together- before opening the window frame and entering through it?

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636 Messages

3 y ago

The Oscars are tonight. It sounds like an "only happens in the movies" worry/scenario.

7 Messages

3 y ago

Actually I'm very serious.  The thought process in #101 for anyone smart enough to figure that out.  WHY would it work or not work? Thanks

Advocate

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636 Messages

3 y ago

My sincerest apologies. I was not attempting to be sarcastic or rude (I am not that type of person). As a customer of over six years, I do not see a scenario where the above would be a concern; therefore, I do not have an answer. Unfortunately, I cannot even imagine it as a possible occurrence. I am sure others will come along with a solution for you.

1.2K Messages

3 y ago

One solution is to hide the window sensors if possible. Mine are tucked up high between the window and the blinds. You would never know they were there from the inside or outside. But, if you are worried about it add some glass breaks for peace of mind.

And yes, Shiherlis is one of the nicest people here. I'm one of the resident jerks I think lol.

7 Messages

3 y ago

Shiherlis, I was not offended. Sorry you took it that way.

Actually, I spent 30 years dealing with burglars and the like.  I pretty well know just how the successful ones think.  I am about to buy a system but wanted to research before I bought and learn any shortcomings before laying out the long-green.

As I understand it Simplisafe gives you about 30 seconds to come through a door and disarm at the keypad. Reasoning out the behavior of the same entry sensor on a door as on a window it would appear to the uninformed that that inside of that 30 second window of time a 'normalized' situation could be reestablished and prevent the alarm from going off.  

The kitchen is where I was concentrating on and putting up a glass-break sensor is not recommended.  I would back the room with a motion detector but it is supposed to deactivate when 'at home' during the night -thus, it is inappropriate.  That would leave only window/door entry sensors functioning during that period.  Thus the curiosity about just the entry sensors being activated. I was hoping for a factual response as conjecture would obviously not prove anything.

Thanks

Advocate

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2.8K Messages

3 y ago

Don't use an SS yard sign or decals.  Then the bad guy doesn't know how you've set up your system.  Or even if you have a system if you don't use a yard sign at all.  Or fool him by using a competitor's sign.

Hide your sensors/magnets on the windows to the best of your ability without compromising function.
I've heard one can use a magnet to defeat door sensors, so use two on the door beyond an arm's length apart (would be difficult for one person to move a magnet across a door to find two sensors).  Would only do this if you don't have a glassbreak or motion sensor to cover the room.

Why is putting a glass-break sensor in your kitchen "not recommended"?  It serves two purposes - it listens for the sound of the first "thud" against glass, and the subsequent sound of shattering/breaking glass.  If you mean SS's recommendation for not in the kitchen due to people breaking dishes or something, if you're using the glassbreak sensor at night, for when you're sleeping, not likely anyone is going to be in the kitchen breaking dishes.

You can certainly set up one or more motion sensors to be armed in Home mode.  It's by default, that the motion sensors are OFF in Home mode.  You'd change this in your settings via keypad, or online control panel if you have interactive monitoring. Just be advised that you'd want to have armed motion sensors in an area you're not likely to wander about at night in a sleepy stupor :)

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2.2K Messages

3 y ago

Sorry, but you misunderstand how "any" alarm system works.  Any trigger is "instantly" recognized.  It might not be ACTED ON until a delay occurs, but any separation of magnet and sensor will set off the system "eventually".

Of course, it is possible to defeat magnetic switches.  Any magnetic switch.  So having them obvious/visible should be avoided to the degree practical.  I mount the sensors in the molding and the magnets on the frame, so hard to see from outside.  But of course, I also have glass break, as if they break out the glass, they can climb through and not worry about the entry sensor.  I also have motion sensors and even a few sensors on interior doors.

1.2K Messages

3 y ago

I have a glass break in the kitchen and have never had a false alarm. They say clanking dishes might set it off but we haven't proved that yet.  For anyone worried about the 30 second delay you can avoid that and have all sensors set to instant trigger. There are several ways now to turn off the alarm from outside first now.

7 Messages

3 y ago

Thanks ALL; those responses were EXACTLY what I was hoping for.
As said, I based my thoughts on what I read, mostly from SS's installation manual that recommends no glass-break in the kitchen. I was not aware the motion sensors -default- could be overridden like in the garage at night while home. I planned on having adequate motion and glass-break sensors strategically placed for the away mode. The idea of NOT posting any warnings of a SS system is a good one except one might incur damage from some dufus making a 'sophmoric attempt'  that wouldn't have happened otherwise. My major concern is for my wife to be secure if I am not there.  I'm Old School and not really into living and breathing Smart Phone and the likes, so SS seems to be the best and probably the most economical thing out there, so will probably go with it.
Much appreciated, gave a GREAT day!

57 Messages

3 y ago

I think the more likely scenario would be that a burglar would break the window and then just crawl through it rather than try to defeat the magnetic switch. I have a glass break sensor mounted in my kitchen. It has never given us a false alarm. I would buy a glass break sensor to ease your concerns.

7 Messages

3 y ago

Probably, but as a rule (repeat) burglars learned the hard way NOT to crawl through broken glass after doing it once. Bleeding leaves a damning DNA evidence behind anymore.  If the nefarious career became a regularity all but the really dumb ones would usually not repeat crawling through shattered glass.  I was assuming a SMART burglar. :)

1.2K Messages

Broken glass didn't stop John McClane!

57 Messages

Yeah but, in your scenario you mentioned the would be burglar breaking the glass to get to the sensor, disabling it and crawling through the now open window. Wouldn't he be crawling through broken glass in both instances? Lol

7 Messages

3 y ago

NO!  err- Doesn't the last sentence in the opening posting say: "- before opening the window frame and entering through it?"  Maybe instead of 'entering through it',  It should have read, - before opening the window frame and through the now open window frame the miscreant crawls into the building.
Lol

57 Messages

I guess where I'm lost is, if you break out all the glass in a window and so now you have no glass in the window frame.... How is it harder or riskier to crawl through this verses breaking a window and still getting glass everywhere and then sliding the window up? Either way you will have all this glass to crawl through. Right?

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2.8K Messages

3 y ago

I also have glassbreak sensors in kitchen/dining, and have never had any alarms.  I'm pretty careful however, and had to train someone else not to leave dishes in the sink before the alarm is set.

So yes, don't let the glassbreak sensors deter you - you can set them like most of the other sensors, disabled in Home mode, armed in Away mode, etc.

The motion sensors are a different story - they are pretty sensitive, but with the right placement and testing, they work for a lot of people (if you have pets, you would want to set them up differently, sensitivity settings, etc) but if you have questions, just post them and some of us will try to help out.

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541 Messages

3 y ago

Colt is right about this as i have o e glass break sensor in the dining room which is next to kitchen and sometimes we forget to turn alarm off first thing in the morning and my sons when done with breakfast will throw the bowl in the sink and they set it off, so what i did was put the kitchen/dining room glass break on secret alert and bam fixed that problem lol

7 Messages

3 y ago

Mostly wrong unless you are crawling through the broken glass on the sill and floor.

OK; One more time for the 60ampfuse: The reason you are "lost" is that you apparently have never attended the site of a through-the-glass burglary.  I HAVE (many-many).  The majority of the time when a body passes through 'a broken glass IN- frame' to gain entry, it will be lacerated and will leak blood, leaving DNA at the scene. This is due to the fact that pieces and bits of fragmented glass sticks to the frame tape creating a condition comparable to an open shark's mouth making it tuff on a body.
If this does not make sense I suggest you: (1) Break the window out of a sash window in your house and then crawl through the frame with the window frame open.  (2) Then close the frame and repeat crawling through the broken out glass. [Which hurt worse?]
(3) Then Change your moniker to 10ampfuse.

57 Messages

I guess I'm seeing it as a burglar taking a baseball bat or similar objects and breaking the window, then taking the bat and quickly rounding the window (like a square) which would knock out all the glass and slipping in with the window closed to not trigger the window sensor which he no doubt sees according to your original post.  Maybe it's hard for you to imagine this scenario because you're so stupid that you have to ask such a dumb question with an obvious answer. Question about your original post. .... What do you think would happen???? Look on YouTube, I've seen many surveillance videos where a burglar breaks out all the glass in seconds and crawls through the window rather than trying to reach up and unlock the locks and then try to rip off a switch and magnet without separating them more than an inch. What a stupid unlikely scenario. Hmmm, I can crawl through this window that I just broke out all the glass in or I could try to feel for the 2 locks and somehow remove the sensor AND the magnet without separating them at all, then tape them together as you said, open the window with a GAPING hole in it, and still have to deal with the glass that's all over. Yeah, think I'm just going to crawl through the hole bud. Good luck in your mission impossible scenario. Call Tom Cruz.

Edit: Let Tom know that he could simply break the window and put a generic magnet right next to the sensor and open the window without detection. No need to actually remove the sensor and magnet. I'm surprised you didn't consider this with your supreme intelligence.